Today in Lent Madness, two Biblical-era saints face off as Phoebe goes up against John the Evangelist. Will a woman who played an integral role in the early church prevail or will the author of the fourth Gospel advance?
In yesterday's action, Anna Alexander defeated Peter Claver 59% to 41% to advance to the Saintly Sixteen against the winner of John Wesley vs. Edith Cavell. This was fueled in part by the Episcopal Diocese of Georgia's unflagging support for one of their own. They even produced a video celebrating Anna's ministry which is worth your time whether or not you voted for her.
Finally, in case you somehow missed yesterday's stirring edition of Monday Madness, you can watch it here. Every week Tim and Scott wax eloquent on all things Lent Madness, keeping the Lent Madness faithful up-to-date on the latest news. It is indeed must-see penitential TV.
Phoebe
All that we know about Phoebe of Cenchreae comes from two short verses at the end of Paul’s letter to the churches in Rome. Notwithstanding such scant reference, she was quite an important figure and was key to interpreting the message of what many see as Paul’s most important letter.
Phoebe was likely a former slave and a Gentile convert. In spite of her humble beginnings, she rose to prominence as a freedwoman. Paul describes her as a “benefactor of many,” including himself. She probably supported the church in Cenchreae (a port about seven miles southeast of Corinth), perhaps even hosting the church in her house. In the letter to the Romans, Paul implies that she is functioning as his partner and currently supporting his mission to Spain.
Paul also describes Phoebe as a deacon. While formal offices were yet to be established when Paul was writing, the use of deacon in reference to Phoebe suggests that she was not only a financial supporter of the church but also a leader in the congregation. Her role included preaching and tending to churches, and Paul sent her as a missionary to Rome.
Paul’s confidence in Phoebe is perhaps clearest in the fact that he sent her as the bearer of the Letter to the Romans. Phoebe did not function as some glorified mail woman. As the deliverer of the letter, Phoebe had the responsibility to read the letter to the congregations and to help them understand what Paul was trying to say (modern interpreters of Paul know what a difficult task this could be). This was an enormous responsibility: Paul, writing to churches that he has never met and that likely had some misgivings about him, trusted Phoebe to be his faithful emissary.
Given that we still read Paul’s letter to the Romans to this day, it looks as though Phoebe was a wise choice.
Collect for Phoebe
Filled with your Holy Spirit, gracious God, your earliest disciples served you with the gifts each had been given: Phoebe as a deacon who served many. Inspire us today to build up your Church with our gifts in hospitality, charity, and bold witness to the Gospel of Christ; who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.
John the Evangelist
John the Evangelist is the name traditionally given to the person who wrote the fourth canonical gospel. He is likely an amalgam of a few Johns present in New Testament scripture: John the Apostle, John the Revelator, and John the Presbyter. What matters most when it comes to John the Evangelist is not his historicity but rather the tradition that informs and sustains his identity.
As one of the sons of Zebedee (the so-called “Sons of Thunder”) and brother of James, John is a fisherman turned fisher-of-men. The gospels also reveal to us that John formed the triad of Jesus’ closest disciples along with Peter and his brother James. This triad was present both when Jesus raised Jairus’s daughter and during the Transfiguration. Christian tradition describes John as the “disciple Jesus loved,” which suggests a close relationship with Jesus. John is the one who takes the Blessed Virgin Mary into his care during and after the crucifixion and is among the first disciples to understand the significance of the empty tomb.
After the ascension of Jesus Christ, John is found in several places in the Book of Acts, including healing the lame man outside the beautiful gate, testifying before the Sanhedrin, and conveying the gift of the Holy Spirit to new converts through the laying on of hands. Tradition suggests that John was eventually exiled to Patmos, where he recorded his ecstatic visions in what we now know as the “Revelation to John” or “John’s Apocalypse”(commonly referred to as the Book of Revelation). Of the original twelve apostles, John is the only one to live to an old age and not die a martyr’s death.
John is often depicted in art holding a chalice with a serpent in it, which is likely tied to his willingness to drink from the cup Jesus was to drink from. There is also a legend that suggests that at some point during John’s ministry, someone passed him a chalice filled with poisoned wine. As John said a blessing over the cup, the poison rose from the cup in the form of a snake.
Collect for John the Evangelist
Shed upon your Church, O Lord, the brightness of your light, that we, being illumined by the teaching of your apostle and evangelist John, may so walk in the light of your truth, that at length we may attain to the fullness of eternal life; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
[poll id="209"]
276 comments on “Phoebe vs. John the Evangelist”
Any woman who can put up with Paul certainly possessed heroic virtue!
Phoebe got my vote.
Seems like I have the uncanny knack of voting for the “underdog” of the two saints in these daily challenges.
An amalgam of 3 different Johns? at least Phoebe is clearly one historical person. Whoever wrote the gospel of John heard the Spirit in the most wonderful voice, and I treasure the book, but Phoebe's reality tipped the scale for me.
Yesterday was the only day I have seen a way to vote. The voting boxes must be hiding.
Each matchup is open for 24 hours, then the poll is closed. Voting goes from 8 am to 8 am eastern time.
Oh, oh, oh! scrolling back up through the posts I came to Oliver, who gets it right! It's always seemed clear to me that Jesus wasn't giving Mary to John to take care of, he was bidding her to be a mother to the youngest of his group, giving John into her care.
I suppose it is vaguely possible that John wrote John. Eric Hoffer was a longshoreman. However, it seems much more likely that such writer of a later generation wrote John for his community, and had virtually no connection with the materials known to the other writers. Yes, obviously some individual wrote the Fourth Gospel, but we know nothing whatsoever in any way shape of form about him except that he was able to write decent Greek.
Phoebe was a real individual.
And, yes, I value the fact that someone was a real individual rather than merely a literary device. Of course, your mileage may vary.
... some writer of a later generation ...
Where would we be without the beauty and poetry of the 4th Gospel? Love Phoebe but John got my vote
Actually, the literary device got your vote.
I never said the Gospel wasn't moving. It simply is not by John. Why is that so hard to grasp.
I voted for Phoebe, although the KJV version of the Prologue to the Gospel of John is some of the most beautiful poetic prose I've ever had the privilege to hear.
We really don't know much about Phoebe or the proliferation of the Johns who might or might not have been the Evangelist.
I agree with the many comments that Phoebe, as a woman, most likely held a prominent position in the early Church and thus had a meaningful impact on Paul's desire to proclaim that Jesus came to save the WORLD, not just a chosen few.
Despite some scholars' admirable work on the historical context of John the Evangelist's message, I am still deeply troubled by the apparent ethnic bias of his point of view. It seems to me that Paul's inclusiveness is more persuasive than John's exclusiveness.
I just don't have the time to read all comments. So I am sure that mine have been said multiple times already. It seems odd to pair a composite writer of the Gospels with a real person from the Epistles. Likewise later on, I can't see why an Archangel is up against a person! But this is Lenten MADNESS:)
I voted for Phoebe all the way to the Halo (in a church that fills the slate before the voting begins). I will probably lose! But without her, Paul's letter to the Romans might never have gotten to Rome. It's fundamental to Christianity .
And surely, her biography lays to rest the notion that Paul did not like women. That has always annoyed me!
I have to vote for the Lord’s beloved deciple for that reason alone. But in addition, John 17 is my favorite chapter in scripture where John records the fervent prayer of our Lord for his own.
This is not a comment on either John or Phoebe or any of the other candidates, but a plea to all commenters:
if you are posting from your phone, please look over your post to see if that instrument that must surely try the patience of all the saints, the Autocorrect, has modified your words without your consent. I'm seeing Philippians autocorrected to Philippines, Genesius to Genesis or Genius, and any number of other presumably unwanted modifications. Let the words of our comments be transcribed faithfully, as the words of the saints should have been transcribed by their biographers.
We don’t know very much about either of these saints, and what we do know is really myth and legend, but I went with Phoebe because I respectfully object to a saint that is a mush mosh of characters who may or may not have existed. And, Phoebe the person must have been a very strong woman to have made it into the Bible, and in a favorable way at that! Phoebe is proof that there was female leadership in the early church, and that is something to celebrate!
After reading the information about about Phoebe and John I asked myself who was the more influential in spreading the gospel of these two and could not help but come to the conclusion that it was John, the Evangelist. Then I read some of the comments and agreed that it was not a case of Gender. Both were very affective in their own way.
I went with John because there was an original John, perhaps in addition to those who came after. And anyone who would leave his livelihood and family to follow Jesus is a saint.
The original John was no doubt a fine fellow, but not John the Evangelist.
Well, I was going to vote for John, but Phoebe is one whole actual woman while John is just
“an amalgam.”
Any one who has to explain Paul has my sympathies and therefore my vote. Blessings on you, Phoebe!
One of my great-grandmothers was Phoebe; therefore, she gets my vote.
I stopped participating last year because I felt it was becoming too wrapped up in modern conceptions of gender and I found it wearisome but then I found myself missing the Lent Madness mayhem. I missed it. So here I am again. Actually I wasn’t really supposed to be here because my irritating cancer was supposed to have killed me well before this. Oh well, what can one count on besides the love of God. In any case, my love of the exquisite language of John in the King James Version informs this as it has informed my life. So obviously, I’m not all that averse to anachronisms when they suit me. Most embarrassing.
Blessings and prayers to you, Elizabeth. May the faithful strength of Lent Madness continue to support and encourage you, and may the love of God continue to sustain and strengthen you. Glad to see you here.
Phoebe will not win and I really don't mind because she has personally won for me. She was one who stood out and pushed her way forward out of slavery and changed her status from being a Gentile to a trusted confidante and true believer for the apostle Paul .That should have qualified her for instant sainthood alone. She was his interpreter as his writings were not presented by him in person as he was going in one direction as she went to other places. She also financially supported Paul and his ministries and became a deacon, a probable rarity at that time but she earned it. Too bad she wont be rewarded now but hey, that.s the breaks ! God rewarded her and that's good enough for me and was good enough for Paul in spite of his mysoginistic (sp!) ways.
Phoebe! I think it's a pretty uneven matchup to pair her with someone as important John the E. So she has my vote.
Your mouth to God's ear, Brenda McHenry
I'm collecting rationales for peoples' votes - fascinating.
1. "John" or "Phoebe" is my name/the name of a relative/the name of my church.
2. Phoebe/John is the more important person
3. One has firmer historical foundation than the other.
4. I choose the underdog
5. More beautiful story/works
6. I choose women because they've often been minimized or overlooked/I choose the person who has made a greater known contribution to the church, usually a man.
What else?
7. I flipped a coin.
8. The spirit guided me.
John the Evangelist, on the strength of his wonderfully poetic celebration of the Incarnation in fist chapter of his gospel.
I'll try that again, without the typos.
John the Evangelist, on the strength of his wonderfully poetic celebration of the Incarnation in THE FIRST chapter of his Gospel.
Can I make a suggestion, in the interests of some fairer match-ups in future LMs.
First-rounds match-ups should be between:
-- saints of the same gender as each other,
-- saints of a similar "profile" as each other, and
-- saints from a similar era as each other.
As well, saints with serious PR issues in today's church should have those issues addressed in their first-round biographies.
I agree. Otherwise it's too much a Battle of the Sexes.
Phoebe all the way. I started my official ministry as a deaconess before becoming a pastor.
I think many can agree that the Book of Revelation was not written by John the Evangelist, people have studied it thoroughly and don't agree that it uses the words or sentence structure the Gospel of John had. In any case our vote is with John because HE WAS THERE! Phoebe may have played a significant role in the early church, but John was handpicked by Jesus to form the church.
Family disagreement: when does voting close? 8 pm tonight or 8am tomorrow morning?
8 am tomorrow! But a worthy family argument.
Female leader in the early church vs. unlikely amalgam. Phoebe, hands down today.
Amen to that, Elaine!
Oh, come on. Jesus' best friend, and the dutiful son-in-law who takes in the B.V.M. How could you vote for the postal worker over that pedigree?
John for the win!
Postal worker??? She didn't drop the letter in the mailbox and leave! Did you miss the part where she read the letter--Romans, no less--to the congregation and explained it? Lector and preacher, thank you very much. Benefactor, as well. {{smooths out ruffled feathers }}
It has to be John, the disciple whom Jesus loved and to whom he entrusted his mother at his death. John's eloquent Gospel is my favorite.