Today in Lent Madness, two Biblical-era saints face off as Phoebe goes up against John the Evangelist. Will a woman who played an integral role in the early church prevail or will the author of the fourth Gospel advance?
In yesterday's action, Anna Alexander defeated Peter Claver 59% to 41% to advance to the Saintly Sixteen against the winner of John Wesley vs. Edith Cavell. This was fueled in part by the Episcopal Diocese of Georgia's unflagging support for one of their own. They even produced a video celebrating Anna's ministry which is worth your time whether or not you voted for her.
Finally, in case you somehow missed yesterday's stirring edition of Monday Madness, you can watch it here. Every week Tim and Scott wax eloquent on all things Lent Madness, keeping the Lent Madness faithful up-to-date on the latest news. It is indeed must-see penitential TV.
Phoebe
All that we know about Phoebe of Cenchreae comes from two short verses at the end of Paul’s letter to the churches in Rome. Notwithstanding such scant reference, she was quite an important figure and was key to interpreting the message of what many see as Paul’s most important letter.
Phoebe was likely a former slave and a Gentile convert. In spite of her humble beginnings, she rose to prominence as a freedwoman. Paul describes her as a “benefactor of many,” including himself. She probably supported the church in Cenchreae (a port about seven miles southeast of Corinth), perhaps even hosting the church in her house. In the letter to the Romans, Paul implies that she is functioning as his partner and currently supporting his mission to Spain.
Paul also describes Phoebe as a deacon. While formal offices were yet to be established when Paul was writing, the use of deacon in reference to Phoebe suggests that she was not only a financial supporter of the church but also a leader in the congregation. Her role included preaching and tending to churches, and Paul sent her as a missionary to Rome.
Paul’s confidence in Phoebe is perhaps clearest in the fact that he sent her as the bearer of the Letter to the Romans. Phoebe did not function as some glorified mail woman. As the deliverer of the letter, Phoebe had the responsibility to read the letter to the congregations and to help them understand what Paul was trying to say (modern interpreters of Paul know what a difficult task this could be). This was an enormous responsibility: Paul, writing to churches that he has never met and that likely had some misgivings about him, trusted Phoebe to be his faithful emissary.
Given that we still read Paul’s letter to the Romans to this day, it looks as though Phoebe was a wise choice.
Collect for Phoebe
Filled with your Holy Spirit, gracious God, your earliest disciples served you with the gifts each had been given: Phoebe as a deacon who served many. Inspire us today to build up your Church with our gifts in hospitality, charity, and bold witness to the Gospel of Christ; who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.
John the Evangelist
John the Evangelist is the name traditionally given to the person who wrote the fourth canonical gospel. He is likely an amalgam of a few Johns present in New Testament scripture: John the Apostle, John the Revelator, and John the Presbyter. What matters most when it comes to John the Evangelist is not his historicity but rather the tradition that informs and sustains his identity.
As one of the sons of Zebedee (the so-called “Sons of Thunder”) and brother of James, John is a fisherman turned fisher-of-men. The gospels also reveal to us that John formed the triad of Jesus’ closest disciples along with Peter and his brother James. This triad was present both when Jesus raised Jairus’s daughter and during the Transfiguration. Christian tradition describes John as the “disciple Jesus loved,” which suggests a close relationship with Jesus. John is the one who takes the Blessed Virgin Mary into his care during and after the crucifixion and is among the first disciples to understand the significance of the empty tomb.
After the ascension of Jesus Christ, John is found in several places in the Book of Acts, including healing the lame man outside the beautiful gate, testifying before the Sanhedrin, and conveying the gift of the Holy Spirit to new converts through the laying on of hands. Tradition suggests that John was eventually exiled to Patmos, where he recorded his ecstatic visions in what we now know as the “Revelation to John” or “John’s Apocalypse”(commonly referred to as the Book of Revelation). Of the original twelve apostles, John is the only one to live to an old age and not die a martyr’s death.
John is often depicted in art holding a chalice with a serpent in it, which is likely tied to his willingness to drink from the cup Jesus was to drink from. There is also a legend that suggests that at some point during John’s ministry, someone passed him a chalice filled with poisoned wine. As John said a blessing over the cup, the poison rose from the cup in the form of a snake.
Collect for John the Evangelist
Shed upon your Church, O Lord, the brightness of your light, that we, being illumined by the teaching of your apostle and evangelist John, may so walk in the light of your truth, that at length we may attain to the fullness of eternal life; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
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276 comments on “Phoebe vs. John the Evangelist”
Because of the time in history when women were not given the recognition they deserved, I feel my ch more to the story of Phoebe. I did ,however, vote for John. His accomplishments and being able to live without being put to death, says he was very diplomatic in his ministry.
The fact that Phoebe is even mentioned in the NT says a great deal in a society that ignored the work and need for women in ALL walks of life back then AND today. My vote goes for Phoebe (also one of my favorite names for a girl!)
Another day, another vote for a deacon. Would love to see Phoebe pull off an upset over so many people's favorite evangelist if, for no other reason, to get some more information on her and dispel the myth that Paul didn't honor the gifts of women.
Although I love John the Evangelist's gospel, I am a part of Phoebe's chapter of the Daughters of the King, so I will support her in this round! Even though we only get a snippet of her in the Bible, our imagination can fill in the rest. She was a "woman of means" and she used her efforts to share the Good News of Christ in Rome, no less!
I voted for John because Jesus gave him to Mary, his mother.
The Book of Revelation scared me so much as a kid that I have fled to Phoebe.
That is definitely a different and later John.
Phoebe! Go Phoebe!
It seems to me Phoebe was Paul's rock and a person he could trust to get what he needed done. Back in this time frame it must have been very hard for a woman to journey to Rome and then get a church to listen to her, even though she was reading a letter from Paul. Go Phoebe, you rock!!!
And how many women in that age could read? A singular accomplishment in itself.
John gets my vote but Phoebe needs a class of her own she is so worthy.
Voted for John today, since we're having a Bible study on the gospel of John and a preaching series at our church.
Just HAD to go with Phoebe because I am a huge fan of the TV show Charmed!
And agree that she is the underdog, and with what everyone said about women in the Church.
At the risk of sounding sexist in my choice, I vote for Phoebe. She was good enough for Paul to entrust her with care of the church so she's good enough for me.
NOTE to the SEC: Really?! A heavy hitter like John against a little-known deaconess? That's as lopsided as David vs Goliath. . . so I chose Phoebe!
You go , girl!
...talk about being ‘a bridge between the church and the world’! Deacon Phoebe gets my very grateFULL vote.
Had to vote for Phoebe. More of us need to know about the women in the early church to show the lie of later church interpretations of the proper role of women, lies that continue to this day.
I love John and the way he has brought me to understand incarnation, but without women such as Phoebe, incarnation would remain the domain of men, excluding me from the fullness of God's love.
Ditto. It is amazing that she was even named, so I'm guessing there is a lot more to her story.
#teamdeacon All day, every day.
You're making it hard for me today! I love both of these saints, but I'm voting for John because I do love his writing. I fell in love with John's Gospel many years ago as a young student of Greek. The beginning of the gospel was my very first translation of actual ancient writing, chosen for its clarity, perfect grammar, and mysticism. It still is one of my favorite passages even today.
Although I am married to a John and my father and brother are Johns, I have to vote for Phoebe. I also think it ironic that she carried Paul's letter to Rome and later Rome decided that women could not be priests.....hmmmm
Love Phoebe and wish we knew more about her. But we don't. John's impact was greater so voted for him.
I love John's gospel, but as someone preparing to be a deacon I'll vote for Phoebe.
I voted for John the Evangelist because the blurb was written by Marcus Halley. Don't know him so I clicked on his name. It goes directly to his sermon, "Be Still Child, God is Speaking". There was an important message there for me. Even in the title. Plus, there's a paragraph on "grace" which is so interesting because a friend's Lenten journey is all about grace. Had to post that sermon on Facebook.
Are we voting on John the Apostle or John the Evangelist.... not the same. Phoebe gets my vote.
Today I voted for John (or all the John's who wrote - as the bio said - probably an amalgam). John's gospel has always been my favourite speaking profoundly of the love of God. I'm also doing a Lent study from the Society of St John the Evangelist - so how could I not vote for John?
"He is likely an amalgam of a few Johns present in New Testament scripture: John the Apostle, John the Revelator, and John the Presbyter." This statement is a reflection of SOME scholarly opinion. It is also likely that the same "John" wrote the Gospel, the letters, and the Revelation. There are enough stylistic and linguistic similarities in all of them to support the traditional view that one person originated them all. BTW, ALL the Gospels were written to encourage, propagate, and reinforce the historical and theological claims of the early Church.
This came in while I was writing my comment below at 9:59. All I have to go on as to style is a statement by the author of “Teach Yourself New Testament Greek” to the effect that the Greek of Revelation is very different from that of the rest of the New Testament, so much so that some think the author to have been unfamiliar with the language. Having failed actually to teach myself New Testament Greek, I’m unable to form a personal opinion and must defer to those who are. Obviously there is informed support for the contrary view.
"Teach Yourself NT Greek"??? Well, God bless you for trying. No easy task under any arrangement!
In the original Greek, there are essentially no linguistic or stylistic similarities between the John of Revelation and the Johns of the Gospel and the Epistles. There are enough stylistic and linguistic (and theological) similarities between the John of the Gospels and the John of the Epistles for most scholars to believe that there is a connection, but not an identity between them. But Revmnwillems is right that all were written so that we might believe.
Voted for St. John. It is my favorite gospel and, what Oliver said!
If I argue that we learn more about the one who wins, and there isn't any more to learn about Phoebe, then, I vote for John. And thank you, Revmnwillems, for affirming that John the writer is the same for all 5 books credited to him. It makes the most sense of writing style, and 'flavor'. And Jesus's love for us flows so deeply from his words!
From what I understand about the dates involved, John would have had a very long life, even by modern standards.
Oh !! this was so unfair!!! I wanted to vote for both because they are both the most important. Really not fair to pit them against each other.
"It is no secret what God can do. What he did for Paul He'll do for you."
Bishop Curry spoke those words in his sermon called The Gospel and the Ugly Cat.
John is a really important figure in the faith but with out Phoebe we might not have gotten Paul's letter to the Romans. And she was a deacon. It is no secret what God can do, what He did for Phoebe, He'll do you you!
As a writer, my first instinct was to go with John. But in reflection of the two, I cast my vote for Phoebe, not only as the underdog in this face-off, but for also putting up with Paul!
As a verger at St. John's Episcopal Church in Austin, TX, I have to go with our namesake saint. This was a tough matchup for Phoebe.
After prayerful reflection I went with Phoebe because she's a saint one can pattern one's life after. Still, the Jesus refracted through the Evangelist's Gospel is perhaps the most attractive portrait of Jesus in the NT. As always, a tough choice!