Ah, this long anticipated family battle has finally arrived. Methodist Meltdown, Fratricide-apalooza, whatever you choose to call it, today's match-up will be epic. While they share a Collect, today the sibling rivalry will be bitter. A fitting end to the Round of 32 as tomorrow we kick off the Round of the Saintly Sixteen.
Yesterday, despite his impressive name, Samuel Isaac Joseph Schereschewsky lost to Harriet Bedell 63% to 37%. While he will be missed, those responsible for updating their church's poster-sized brackets will rejoice. Harriet will go on to face Thomas Gallaudet in the next round.
We recently heard a rumor that there are still some people who have not liked us on Facebook or followed us on Twitter. That seems impossible. In any case, it's time to vote between a heart "strangely warmed" and a "strange palpitation of the heart." If you find your own heart beating too fast with this heart-thumping saintly action, please call your cardiologist. The Supreme Executive Committee is of limited help in such matters of the heart.
John Wesley
It may not be completely fair to call John Wesley an overachiever, but he provides good reasons for making that case. An excellent student, John attended Christ Church, Oxford, where he and his brother Charles established the Holy Club. They were mockingly called the Methodists because they were so methodical about church attendance, Bible study, prayer, and service to the poor.
After they were ordained as Anglican priests, the Wesleys went to the primitive colony of Georgia where they failed to impress anyone, and John managed to get sued for breach of contract by his sort-of former fiancée. John came back to England utterly downcast.
While in the New World, John had become friends with Moravian missionaries. It was while attending a Moravian service in Aldersgate that John felt his heart “strangely warmed,” and he gained a new understanding of God’s grace. It is out of this Aldersgate experience that John rebooted his ministry.
He used his remarkable organizational skills to establish Methodist societies within the Church of England, though he was barred from preaching in most churches due to his evangelistic methods. He often traveled more than 4,000 miles a year–250,000 miles during his lifetime. He preached over 40,000 sermons, mostly in the open air to working class people. He published 233 books, receiving over £30,000 in royalties, most of which he gave to charity, including funds to establish the Kingswood School in Bristol.
Although he remained an Anglican priest throughout his life and did not intend to found a new denomination, his ordination of two lay preachers set the stage for the split of Methodism from the established Church of England.
He continued preaching until days before his death at age 88 in 1791.
Collect for John Wesley
Lord God, who inspired your servant John Wesley with burning zeal for the sanctification of souls, and endowed him with eloquence in speech and song: Kindle in your Church, we entreat you, such fervor, that those whose faith has cooled may be warmed, and those who have not known Christ may turn to him and be saved; who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.
Charles Wesley
Charles Wesley was the younger of the famed Wesley Brothers, whose Methodist revival changed the shape of religion in eighteenth-century England. Charles was among the greatest hymn writers of all time, with over 6,000 hymns written during his ministry. Among his texts are such beloved hymns as “O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing,” “Love Divine, All Loves Excelling,” “Come Thou Long Expected Jesus,” “Lo! He Comes with Clouds Descending,” and “Hark! The Herald Angels Sing.” While often eclipsed by his elder brother, Charles Wesley was described by those who knew him as a “man made for friendship.”
Charles attended Christ Church, Oxford, where he and John gathered with close friends for regular communion, religious study, and prayer. Because of the group’s fastidious and structured habits, they were snidely called “Methodists” by their peers; the name stuck. Anyway, Charles was ordained in 1735 before going to serve as a missionary in the colony of Georgia, where he would preach and minister while also serving as the secretary to the colony’s governor. Charles found life in Georgia difficult and was often caught in the crossfire of his parishioners’ feuds; he returned to England after three years.
Charles experienced an inner conversion on Pentecost Sunday, May 21, 1738, at the home of the English Moravian John Bray. He described it as a “strange palpitation of the heart,” in which he gained the confidence and assurance of Jesus’ great love for him. His brother John’s famous Aldersgate experience would come three days later. The brothers would then go on to preach and proclaim that experience to all in England, especially in fields, factories, and under-churched populations.
As Methodism grew and experienced pressure from within to separate from the Church of England, Charles Wesley remained fiercely committed to avoiding schism from the church, which he lovingly called “the old ship.” Charles consistently and vehemently opposed any steps his brother John took which he saw as possibly leading to schism. Charles was not informed of John’s ordinations of Asbury and Coke in 1784 until after the fact, primarily to prevent him from intervening. On his deathbed, he wrote to the local vicar, saying: “Sir, whatever the world may say of me, I have lived, and I die, a member of the Church of England. I pray you to bury me in your churchyard.”
Collect for Charles Wesley
Lord God, who inspired your servant Charles Wesley with burning zeal for the sanctification of souls, and endowed them with eloquence in speech and song: Kindle in your Church, we entreat you, such fervor, that those whose faith has cooled may be warmed, and those who have not known Christ may turn to him and be saved; who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.
-- David Sibley
Vote!
[poll id="87"]
221 comments on “John Wesley vs. Charles Wesley”
I grew up Presbyterian. As an adult I became an Episcopalian. I attended Wesley Seminary and loved the class in hymnody. Common to all that is the practice of singing the Gospel. No contest for me today: Charles! Now, if Bach and Charles meet in the Elate 8, I will be genuinely stressed.
O for a thousand votes to cast, I'm going with Charles all the way!
I still wonder if the strange warming in the heart was merely pepperoni on a late night pizza.
I grew up in the Methodist Church and attended Methodist collage and seminary. The church has an excellent higher education system. But I voted for Charles. It's his hymns that remain and connect me to Christ. And those hymns carried me on into Anglicanism and an Episcopal Priest. Charles was a Catholic through and through. His Eucharistic hymns are unparalleled.
Today reminds me of how related we all are as Christians. Luther most certainly knew of Huss (founder of what became the Bohemian Brethren/Moravian movement) and called for similar reforms. In 1722, a small group of Bohemian Brethren (the "Hidden Seed") came under the protection and care of Nikolaus Ludwig von Zinzendorf, a Lutheran Pietist. There, they experienced a revival and adopted some Lutheran teachings (such as Luther's catechism). During that time, their great missionary efforts began in earnest. Through this, they eventually came into contact with the Wesleys as mentioned above. Today, the Unity of the Brethren (Moravians) and UMC are in full communion with the ELCA, as is the Episcopal Church. We are truly part of a great cloud of witnesses. Hating to choose between either brother, I'll vote for the underdog, John, today. I think Charles prolific music will help win the day (and hearts), but I would like to see the vote become closer.
Charles! Can't imagine church without the hymns. "Hark!" is about my most favorite Christmas hymn. I have a sister who won't come to church on Christmas Eve if we are not singing it. I agree with the comment Hymnody is Homily, and Augustine's -- he who sings prays twice.
I chose Charles because I love his hymns and have long sung them so joyfully.
Went for Charles, because of the hymns he wrote-some of my favorites and I love to sing.
Can Love Divine, All Love Excelling trump I felt my heart strangely warmed? Another divine dilemma.....I cast my vote....O for a thousand tongues to sing!
Love both Wesleys - their combined feast day (March 3) is also the anniversary of my ordination to the priesthood. In the end, though, I think John let his zeal get control of him, leading ultimately to an unnecessary (in my opinion) split in the Church that i am pretty sure was not his goal. I've always seen Charles as having kept John in check--something that is pretty hard for a younger brother to do--so he gets my vote.
I have strong Episcopal and Methodist roots, but for the 'heart palpitations' and for the 'old ship' I vote Charles, besides, I'm the youngest too!
Chuck gets my vote. Being a part of a congregation singing "O For A Thousand Tongues..." has often been a transcendent moment for me.
The hymns have it. I've sung them all my life and they mean so much, both emotionally and theologically.
This is just not fair. How am I, a lifelong Methodist, supposed to choose between the two fathers of my church? The preacher in me votes for John, the singer/choir director for Charles, and I know not what to do! Corrections in John's story--he first met the Moravians on board ship, not in Georgia. Another candidate for sainthood is their mother. Mike, you're confusing John's love interest in Georgia with another love interest in England. The one in Georgia married someone else, and John caused a scandal by refusing to give her Communion. Later, Charles interfered with John's romance in England. John eventually married someone else, but it was a very unhappy disunion. We used to joke in seminary about how if he had been happily married our church might not exist! But John never left the C of E. He took to preaching outdoors when barred from preaching in the churches; but until the end he insisted that the members of the Methodist societies attend services and receive Communion in C of E. The Methodist movement in America became a separate church with the American Revolution...many of the C of E priests returned to England, and the new church was formed to meet the needs of the American Methodists. Those of you who think only Charles was interested in hymnody haven't read John's instructions on singing in church. John was such a powerful preacher that, when a mob threatened to stone him, he preached to them and they were all converted. God sent God's own Son to be the firstborn of the flock; God doesn't just favor younger sons. Let's face it, not only Methodists but all Christians would be infinitely poorer without either one of the Wesley bros. But I have to vote, and will go for the "brand plucked from the burning"--brother John!
Thank you for those corrections. Wesley historians will appreciate. Suggest everyone read more about Susanna Wesley. Fascinating woman.
While John had a better portrait painter, Charles led his brother to new birth (with the Holy Spirit, of course) and even though it was a tough vote, I went with Charles.
A hard choice indeed! Having grown up Methodist they are both my heroes, even though I became an Episcopalian. Hymns always win over preaching for me so my vote goes to Charles.
Charles is great, a wonderful testimony, a more balanced personality, the one I would want to be friends with, invite over for dinner (with his wife).
But I'm left wondering. Would we even know of Charles to vote for him, if not for John. John was the powerhouse, the hurricane, the horse, the lion, the artist of faith, the curator of theologies, the God-obsessed, the conciliator of controversy, the Arminian Puritan, the Orthodox Anglican, the preacher of the Word, the reasoned in argument, the expression of the love to young, old, rich, poor, insiders, outsiders.
thanks for this poetic tribute to God's work in John's life.
I'm perplexed by the fact that John Wesley"s biographer failed to mention his prolific theological writings which serve as much of the foundation for Methodist polity and practice. John wrestled with "free will" vs. "predestination" and many other topics that his song-writing brother did not. Though I love the hymns, I feel that John had the tougher job. Perhaps that's why he looks so "grumpy" in his picture.
While Charles's hymns send my heart soaring, I feel sorry for John, who's being thoroughly trounced right now. Plus, I rang handbells with a delightful and talented Methodist. And I'm the first-born.
So John gets my vote.
Those hymns! As a lifelong choir singer I have to go with Charles.
Do I remember right? Seems like Charles mellowed with age and John became more rigid/legalistic.
While both brothers did some hymn writing and in John's case translating, John was no where near as prolific in hymn writing as his brother Charles. The current Lutheran hymnal that my church uses has 10 hymns by Charles, none by John. Some older Lutheran hymnals have a few by John, but many, many more by Charles. For me the 6,000 hymns was the deciding factor, I voted for Charles!
Love those hymns!
I was drawn to Charles because of his hymns and because of his efforts to stop schism from the Church of England and as a younger brother. When I cast my vote I fully expected to be voting for the underdog. Man was I wrong there!
Grew up a Methodist, singing in a Methodist church choir. It wasn't until I became an Episcopalian as an adult that I had any idea where all those wonderful hymns had come from. Going with Charles.
Love Charles's poetry (he wrote the words, not the music), but John Wesley's life work is found throughout the world. Because he never saw the Methodist movement as a separate denomination, JW empowered and trained laity in leadership. He formed small groups-classes - that held each other accountable.
As the descendant of some of John Wesley's long-suffering (well, not so very long, since he bugged out pretty fast, but still) parishioners at Christ Church, Savannah, I dispute that the colony of Georgia was so very "primitive," but I'd say that John could be insufferable. As a musician, of course, I have to go with the hymn-writing loyal Anglican Charles in any case. "Lo, he comes with clouds descending," and sibling rivalry never dies. May the best brother win - and it looks as though he's well on his way.
Being the second born behind a dynamic elder sibling, I cast my vote for Charles.
A note on the Wesleys birth order: Of the 10 surviving children (3 sons, 7 dtrs) of 19, John was 15th, Charles 18th. Samuel was the first son.
The theology in Charles's poems/hymns led me to vote for him.
No contest, in my mind. Through his hymnody alone, which has spread throughout almost every Christian denomination, Charles has had the greater impact by far. While John's preaching clearly affected those who heard him, Charles' hymns continue to live on -- comforting, inspiring, converting and providing a joyous expression of faith to hundreds of thousands within the Anglican Communion and beyond. Thank you, Charles!
Wow.. that was easier than I thought. I cry sometimes when I sing Charles's hymns. I was dreading this match up, but boy, that was the easiest choice I've made all season.